Doukei 憧憬 Aspiration [Translation]

Hello Koakuma!!

Aaaand!!! The translation is finished!! Thank you so much to my dear friend Sarah, because she helped me a lot!

Doukei 憧憬 Aspiration

今に届きそうな包み込む雲を見つめて
もう飛べはしない傷付いた羽を広げて

空にかざした憧憬は
全て打ち消され

貴女の泣かす哀しみ拾い集め
空に還し傷み涙私が奪ってあげるから


貴女の現在 失しなったものの代わりに
抱きしめ(て) この羽をあげましょう 


I gaze at the incoming clouds that seem as though they will cover everything before long
I can't fly anymore, I spread my hurt wings

aspirations that have shielded the sky
deny everything

I will gather the sorrows that make you cry
and send your painful tears to the sky so that they will be stolen away

I have lost you now, but in return
hold me close, and these wings will soar


If you want to use this translation PLEASE credit my blog!
Thank you
Elettra
  1. 2016/01/13(水) 08:04:56|
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Nice attempt, but you mistranslted everything, you didn't get one singular grammar form right..
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 03:36:25 |
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Re: No title

> Nice attempt, but you mistranslted everything, you didn't get one singular grammar form right..


Thank you for your message, can you please let me know where are the mistakes? so I can correct everything
Thank you

  1. 2016/01/14(木) 03:40:44 |
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  3. 小悪魔ちゃんの煉獄
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今に届きそうな包み込む雲を見つめて
I stare at wrapping clouds that seem to be coming

もう飛べはしない傷付いた羽を広げて
opening (my) hurt wings that cant fly anymore

空にかざした憧憬は
全て打ち消され
the ambition I raised to the sky
are all denied

貴女の泣かす哀しみ拾い集め
空に還し傷み涙私が奪ってあげるから

I gather what makes you cry
I take from you the tears of sadness and return them to the sky (honestly I'm not 100% sure about this one)

貴女の現在 失しなったものの代わりに
抱きしめ(て) この羽をあげましょう 

In place of what you now lost
I hold you, and give you these wings


Some of the vocabulary I chose may not be perfect, English is not my first language.

Anyway, I may suggest you to also include romaji when you post songs lyrics/translations.
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 06:49:15 |
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To the person trying to correct the English translations,
I know you mean well and I'm sure Koakuma is grateful for your help, but being a native English speaker myself I see many inconsistencies and mistakes in your English translations as well.

今に届きそうな包み込む雲を見つめて
I stare at wrapping clouds that seem to be coming

** There is no such thing in the English language as "wrapping clouds". The term 包み込む雲 refers to a particular kind of cloud pattern which we have no general English word for. As an alternative you could choose something like "blanketed clouds" but this sounds really strange to English speakers. Ultimately the best choice to make for this situation would be something like "clouds covering _____ " but we need an object in the sentence, so clouds covering what? We can probably assume they are covering the sky, or for a more artistic interpretation that still leaves room for ambiguity, the word "everything" can be used because we can then assume perhaps this line is metaphorical for something a bit more profound.

Furthermore, you ended it at "coming" but when we refer to weather patterns and clouds in English we usually say something like "incoming" or "coming in" ie, "There will be a storm coming in tonight, so be sure to take cover in a safe place"

Also, stare and gaze mean the same thing, but typically we "gaze" rather than stare at the sky.
Finally, you left out 今に from your translatinon.


もう飛べはしない傷付いた羽を広げて
opening (my) hurt wings that cant fly anymore

**Again more ambiguity in this phrase. While we can assume the hurt wings belong to the speaker/lyricist, its not particularly ideal to include the possessive noun you wrote in parenthesis. The translation OP posted and your translation are essentially the same, just worded different, so there was hardly a reason to claim the original was incorrect.

空にかざした憧憬は
全て打ち消され
the ambition I raised to the sky
are all denied

**Because we are dealing with 全て in the second line, "ambition" should become plural -- ambitions. Also, は implies the ambitions are our subject here, not "I", so the ambitions are performing the action, not the speaker.

貴女の泣かす哀しみ拾い集め
空に還し傷み涙私が奪ってあげるから

I gather what makes you cry
I take from you the tears of sadness and return them to the sky (honestly I'm not 100% sure about this one)

**What happened to 哀しみ here? This is in fact a noun which should be included in this line, seeing as it is the sorrows (or sadness or grief, take your pick) which are being gathered and causing this person to cry.

痛み涙 = painful tears, seeing as the word 痛み translates to "painful"

We're also dealing with から at the end of the second line, which translates to "because". However, we can substitute "because" with "so that" if it is placed properly within the sentence, which in the case of OP's translation, it is.

Its in bad form to say "I gather" or "I take". Its more natural to say "I will gather" or "I will take", otherwise it sounds a bit odd.


貴女の現在 失しなったものの代わりに
抱きしめ(て) この羽をあげましょう 

In place of what you now lost
I hold you, and give you these wings

**These last two lines are more or less accurate, but as I said previously, it sounds rather inane to say "I hold" without a modifier such as "will"


Some of the choices in wording in the original post are there to help make the translated lyrics sound more natural to English speakers. Your revised version sounds quite choppy to me and it easily became obvious that a non-native English speaker wrote them.

I don't mean to start a fight or anything, but before you judge Koakuma's translations and claim them to be completely wrong, it would be wise if you reviewed your English a bit more thoroughly.
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 08:22:56 |
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  3. Sarah
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Like I stated English is not my first language, and I'm far from being a Japanese>English translator, my point was mainly correcting the many grammar mistakes, rather than giving a final/decent translation.
Also, most of the mistakes you pointed out in my version, were also in hers.

*I gaze at the incoming clouds that seem as though they will cover everything before long*
The problem is that here what "seems as though" is not the fact that the clouds will cover everything, but the fact that they're almost here.
My translation was crap, yeah, and I didn't know that 包み込む雲 was an actual expression, thanks.

*I can't fly anymore, I spread my hurt wings*
Here it's not "I" who can't fly, but the wings.
I included (my) in my version, because at the end of the song *someone* gives *some other one* their wings. And I think it's safe to assume this is all in 1st and not 3rd person. But anyway since I assumed, I put it in parenthesis.

*aspirations that have shielded the sky
deny everything*
Here the translation for かざした is totally off, and the grammar also.
I didn't proof check my stuff here, you're right, ambition should be plural (as is "are all denied" I wrote in the second line), but you're wrong about your second statement.
は doesn't state a subject, but the theme. They often are the same thing, but sometimes, like here, that's not the case.
Here the subject is "I", which is implied.
(私が)空にかざした憧憬は
There is no way the "ambitions" are the subject here, because in that case there would be no action performed by those ambitions anyway. You seem to mistake this for something like 空にかざされた憧憬は, in which case there would be no "I" here because the ambitions would be "lifted". The verb here is not reflessive, so there must be someone who lifted the ambitions, again, it's safe to assume it's "I".

*I will gather the sorrows that make you cry
and send your painful tears to the sky so that they will be stolen away*
The first part is fine (and yeah, I totally forgot about the 哀しみ here, my bad), in the second part the tears are not "stolen", it's "I" who steals them.
Anyway, my English here was horrible, reading it again.
But again I don't agree with including a translation for から, because for me it sounds something like "ね、今から仕事に行くから" which gives a "be aware of" meaning, but I wouldn't translate it in any way in English.

Again, it was not the choice of wording the problem here, it was the totally broken grammar in most of those sentences.
And I didn't mean to sound (too much) of an asshole, but yeah, I wouldn't be uploading a translation online if I wasn't sure about the meaning. Some parts were a bit off, some other were completely wrong.
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 11:32:39 |
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Thanks for your response, but after reading your logic there are still a few things I feel I need to add to this.

"seem as though" was actually chosen by me because because its the exact same meaning as "seem to be"
If I'm not mistaken you simply replaced "seem as though" with "seem to be," yet to an English speaker these two points feel exactly the same. Theres honestly no point in arguing that one because its more or less an interpretation of how the translator chose to write it. "seem as though" sounds far more poetic and fitting for song lyrics than "seem like", but to each their own.

もう飛べはしない傷付いた羽を広げて
opening (my) hurt wings that cant fly anymore

**To be honest, I do agree with your translation here, but I think there was originally a misunderstanding at this part. When I checked OP's translation at first there was a space between もう飛べはしない and 傷付いた羽を広げて which originally implied they were two separate sentences here. I don't have the original lyrics physically at hand to look at myself so I took it at face value and had her make it into two sentences. Had there been no space here, I would have translated it the same way you did.

The reason why "shielded" was used instead of "lifted" for かざした was because looking in a dictionary this verb could also mean "shading something" such as shading your eyes on a very bright day. "shield" can be a synonym for "shade", but I do recognize the fact that the word could be raise/lift as well and I ultimately agree with you that it would have been the better choice.


"so that they will be stolen away" is implied that "I" will steal them -- if you needed more clarity, it could totally be rewritten as "they will be stolen away by me"
We have "I" in the first line which should imply that "I" is still relevant in the second.
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But again I don't agree with including a translation for から, because for me it sounds something like "ね、今から仕事に行くから" which gives a "be aware of" meaning, but I wouldn't translate it in any way in English.

**But I still wouldn't say using "so that" is completely wrong. Just because you don't agree with it because thats not how you personally would do it is just trying to start a pissing contest. Every writer and/or translator has some degree of flexibility on how they choose to convey a message, but at this point it feels more like you're being unnecessarily nit-picky about a grammar point that you personally feel should be changed. However, what you conveyed in your translation and what is conveyed in the original is essentially the exact same message just written differently. I'm pretty sure any native speaker with half a brain would be able to gather that.


I totally respect the fact that you are not a native English speaker, but don't you think making statements like "I wouldn't post a translation online if I wasn't sure about the meaning" kind of applies to you as well in this case? While you may understand Japanese grammar well enough, why respond with a revised version that had several inaccuracies in English? You had the general idea and feeling down of the song just fine, but as I see it, so did OP. Your lyrics and hers are mostly the same, and while yes there are mistakes in OP's version, there were in yours as well. A lot of things in song lyrics are open to interpretation, but the meaning in both of these lyrics are practically the same to native English speakers. Most people aren't really going to care if you left out an "I" in a few places or changed a few sentence structures as long as the general idea is clear.

It feels to me you failed to grasp crucial parts of English that were worded differently from what you would have liked, but already implied the exact same things you said.

I guess I wonder why you came at OP so aggressively? She is trying her best to provide information to fans overseas, and she has stated many times that she is open to advice and corrections. I don't think she has a problem with you correcting her mistakes, but its pretty rude to attack someone from the start when they have explicitly requested help on multiple occasions. I'm not quite sure if you intended to come off as strongly as you did, but the situation could have been handled a bit better. OP is not a native speaker either and has never once claimed to be perfect at English or Japanese. Translating lyrics and information is her way of attempting to learn and work with both languages, so naturally there are going to be mistakes.
You were never forced to read this blog, so a little bit more gentle advice would have been more sufficient.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is please be considerate when you want to critique someone's language abilities. She did nothing to attack you personally or provoke attacks, and you're honestly in no place to claim superiority in your language knowledge unless it is in your own native language. Just because parts of what she translated are not by the book accurate doesn't mean her English version is completely wrong as you stated before.
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 20:24:13 |
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Sorry for the late reply,
To the person who started correcting my translation: There was no need to be so rude and aggressive to me. I really appreciate your correction and critiques but please don't be so aggressive next time, I always do my best to improve my Japanese and English skills and I love exchange opinions about translations.
This translation has been checked by a native English speaker who is really fluent in Japanese (this person lives and works in Japan), and has been re-checked by me before posting it.
I'm not saying that my translation are always perfect, there are some mistakes but I am willing to learn how to avoid them.
Anyway, thank you for your comments and I will add the Romaji version.

Elettra
  1. 2016/01/14(木) 22:02:21 |
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  3. 小悪魔ちゃんの煉獄
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